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DENNIS
CONRAD INTERVIEW
Where
YOU ask the questions
| CasinoDealers.Net interviews
Dennis Conrad,
President and Chief Strategist of Raving Consulting
Company of Reno, Nevada. He is a graduate of Stanford University and is a frequent lecturer, speaker and columnist who has earned many industry
awards for his work. In his career he has worked his way
up from Casino Dealer to Corporate Vice President. He specializes in strategic marketing and is known for his
always entertaining common sense observations
about the gaming industry. His book, Conrad's Corners: Uncut and Uncensored
is a must read informative collection of his published articles. |
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DENNIS
CONRAD: Thanks for inviting me. I wish this site was around when
I was a dealer.
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| SCOTT CAMERON:
You were a graduate of Stanford University BEFORE you became a craps
dealer for 10 years?
DENNIS:
Yeah, my father never understood that either. I went to Stanford
on a golf scholarship, remember this was the early 70's with the war
protests and drugs and all that stuff and in three years I went from
thinking about a career as a professional golfer or a corporate
lawyer, to considering being a prison reformer.
It
is a long story, but essentially I left there pretty lost and
confused about my future, met my wife to be in Iowa and landed back
out west needing to go to work. We lived for a while in Needles, CA,
and I was a substitute schoolteacher and a weekend desk clerk at
Motel 6 (when the rooms really were $6). The Laughlin casinos were
only 30 minutes up the river and since gambling was already in my
blood from my golfing days, it was pretty logical step to start
visiting the casinos. Since
I was making minimum wage, the dealing life looked pretty attractive
so I went to work as a keno writer, then a bartender and then got
into the dealing end, which I did for almost 10 years.
May I ask what
casinos you dealt at?
I broke in at Cactus Pete's in
Jackpot, NV and was a three game dealer in 30 days! Of course I
wasn't very proficient yet. Our company mobile home was destroyed in
a wind storm and then we moved to North Lake Tahoe where I dealt at
the old Nevada Lodge, mostly craps and black jack. We moved to Las
Vegas and like many I had visions of making the big bucks on The
Strip - I started on the box at the California Club, and then was
lucky to score a "go for your own" craps job at the
Stardust, yes, when the mob ran it. From there I dealt a short time
at the old Holiday Casino on The Strip (Harrah's had recently bought
it), before going into management with Harrah's, first as a floor
person (I hated it!) and then as one of the first table game
instructors in the business. Pretty soon I was in marketing and
things just snowballed from there.
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| What inspired
you to move up the corporate ladder when you were a dealer and what
steps did you take to initiate such desire to get involved in casino
marketing?
To be honest, like many dealers, I
had "hit the wall." I was asking myself questions about my
future and where this very fun job that was starting to get a little
stale, could take me. I thought about getting out of the business
and into a real job, whatever the hell that is, but I thought about
real estate and stock brokering. By this time I was now a table game
floor person, and I found that incredibly boring, plus not having
much future unless "your guy" was in a strong position up
the food chain.
Right before I did something drastic,
a postion opened up that had been going on for about a year called
"Captain Casino," which was the table game instructor at
the Holiday. I thought, what the hell, I might enjoy it, since the
way I used to hustle tokes on the craps table was by continually
teaching "acorns" how to play (I could never bring myself
to rough hustle, like some of the arm breakers I used to work with).
So to answer the question, boredom was a motivator, lack of a career
path got me to thinking about a career change, and a lucky opening
for a position right up my alley happened at the right time. I
really was quite a ham on the stick, and I just carried that over
into my table games lessons.
From there, one thing led to another
and I just kept on pushing and nagging for other opportunities and
responsibilities. And I was lucky to shortly thereafter have my
mentor John O'Looney arrive on the scene, miraculously see some
potential in me and then just throw so much new crap my way that
soon I was doing a little bit of everything.
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| Captain
Casino? Please don't tell me you wore some kind of captains uniform
doing that!
Well, yes actually. The problem was
that this was an experimental program and the table games director
didn't want to spend a lot of money on it, so to create the uniform,
they took some hotel room service jackets, velcroed some gold bars
on my shoulders and put some gold trim on the white jacket and made
me a captain's hat that was made of vinyl (which was hot as hell,
but I had to wear it to feel like the captain). I probably looked
more like a refugee from the Merchant Marine than a ship's captain.
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| Is it
true you wore a stuffed parrot on your shoulder as Captain Casino?
Yes
in the last few months, I found one at some swap meet and I put it
on my shoulder.
It
was pretty cool, but tough to balance.
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Above
you mentioned that Mr O'looney had you do "a little bit of
everything"
What
might that be?
Well a little bit of everything was
exactly that. We were doing three mini-blackjack tournaments (Fun
21) three nights a week. We started doing major blackjack and craps
tournaments quarterly ($30K - $50K first prizes). We got to where we
were doing one major slot tournament a month. Player parties with
entertainment (we actually found an inexpensive niche getting
"B" & "C" entertainers that could still draw
a crowd - we had Henny Youngman, Foster Brooks, Jerry VanDyke and a
really cool "A Rose for Mother's Day" with Morey Amsterdam
and Rose Marie). We did an ESPN fight in a ballroom that wasn't
designed for it. We had a "first Ace promotion" where we
gave showgoers a coupon for table games - I'll bet the dealers loved
those. We started slot celebrations for slot winners. We pioneered
one of the original party pits, which still exists at Harrah's Las
Vegas till this day and is one of the few successes of this type
that I have seen. And about a hundred other things - I kind of got
known as the guy who would try anything and the finance types often
viewed me as an uncontrolled spender. But what a learning
experience!
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| OK,
so you leave the world of casino operations and use your innovative
talents in marketing. How long did this continue before you
went out on your own?
I did the marketing bit for about
five or six years and it certainly enhanced my stature with
Harrah's, but my mentor left to join Circus Circus Enterprises and
be GM at the Luxor, so I was kind of left to fend for myself to
further my career path. At the time marketing people weren't moving
up too fast to bigger positions and by this time I had my sights set
on career development and my vision was to run a "Raving Fans
Casino" that was a model for innovation and customer/employee
focus.
About this time, a Harrah's corporate
job opened up called "Director of the William F. Harrah
Institute of Casino Entertainment," basically a fancy name that
entailed putting together a weeklong program together to teach
Harrah's/Promus non-gaming executives about the gaming business, to
help fuel Harrah's need for gaming executives as it rapidly expanded
around the country. This was a high profile position that really
raised my stature with Harrah's and in my career development
discussions with them, we were talking about me becoming a GM of a
new riverboat somewhere down the road.
Then Circus Circus Enterprises came
calling, thought I was some fancy institute director with employee
development experience and offered to triple my salary to be the
Corporate Vice President of Employee Training and Development,
reporting right to the CEO. Kind of funny actually, took only seven
years to go from crap dealer to Corporate Vice President, so folks
need to know that it is possible. Circus Circus Enterprises then bought
Gold Strike Resorts, new people came in to run the company and my
job was eliminated six months after it was created. I had 2 1/2
years left on my contract and they asked me to take another role
with the company of my choosing, at the property level.
A bunch of ex-Harrah's people had
just gone up to Circus Circus Reno (including my mentor) so I asked
to be sent there and got back in on the marketing side, essentially
filling the last 2 1/2 years of my contract, hanging with some great
people and doing some terrifically innovative things at Circus
Circus Reno. So when my contract was up, my choices were to go get
another marketing job (Circus wasn't going to continue to pay me my
contracted corporate salary at the property level) or try something
else.
Actually
the decision was made by my wife who wanted to stay in Reno (she's
from Iowa and Reno is perfect for her, kind of like Iowa with
Walmarts). So one option was starting my own company, which I did,
not having a clue what was going to happen. I survived the first
year which was nothing but spend money and try to get your name out
there. But from then on, it has been non-stop growth ever since, so
I feel fortunate and that I have created something worthwhile with
Raving. So I wasn't driven to be an entrepreneur, but now that I
have done it, I wish I would have started 10 years earlier. There is
a lot to be said for not having all the meetings, politics, reports,
issues, etc. that exist in most companies.
Becoming
a columnist. How did this all start?
There
was a guy named Steve Grogan who had a rag called the Grogan Report
in 1993, which wasn't widely read and only lasted a short time and
he had been to the Harrah's Institute that I was running and he
asked me if I would like to write a column for him. That kind of got
me started, so when his publication went under I was looking for
other opportunities to write. Richard Schuetz had just resigned as
the marketing columnist for Casino Executive Magazine and by this
time it was 1996 and I was in Reno and just happened to be having
lunch with some UNR folks and the publisher of Casino Executive,
Bill Dorn. So I put in my bid as a columnist and I have been writing
ever since.
So you can see that with my writing
career as well as my marketing career, there has been a little luck
involved and being in the right place at the right time. And that
would be my advice to some dealers out there, opportunities do come
along, you need to recognize them and go for them.
Dennis,
you
seem to have an “out of the box” approach toward casino
marketing. You sure raise eyebrows in your seminars when you dish
out kudos and slams in your annual "Conrad's best and worst
casino promotions" each year. What else is up your sleeve?
The Best and Worst Casino Promotions has really been a labor of love for me over the last 7 years and I used to enjoy presenting it at the Global Gaming Expo. Interestingly, I got "disinvited" this year for my presentation, even though I used to attract standing room only crowds - a competitor is muscling in on my Best Casino Promotions franchise and is now doing a competition for his own magazine. I certainly don't mind that as the industry could use as much recognition as it can get. I will now be releasing my Best and Worst Casino Promotions list every year at Casino Marketing 2004: The National Conference which will be held this year July 25-27 at the Rio in Las Vegas, and which we are doing in partnership with Ascend Media Gaming Group (Casino Journal folks).
I haven't released my best and worst promotion list yet, but I can tell you the following promotions are under consideration on the table games side: the "Dealertainers at the Imperial Palace," soft hustle training for dealers at Barona Valley Ranch Resort and Casino and the psychic dealer at Bill's in Lake Tahoe. As far as a worst promotion, there actually was a slot tournament conducted under the title "Slots For Tots."
Soft hustle training?
Psychic dealers?
Soft hustle training at Barona is a formal dealer
training program to give them more tools to earn more tokes. It includes the
topics of The Ten Things You Never Say To A Customer and The Ten Things You
Always Say To A Customer. Since Barona doesn't let their dealers keep their own
tips (which is a competitive disadvantage in Southern California), they
do this to try and keep the toke rate up, have happier dealers and provide better customer
service.
The psychic dealer at Bill's is an actual
performing psychic who has a show in a small showroom there. They put her on
the table during the weekends when she has shows scheduled and she has
learned how to deal and they have signs inviting people to play with the
psychic dealer. Gaming regulations require that she make her predictions on
the outcome of the bets AFTER the bets have been put into the circle and can't
be changed. She estimates her success rate at predicting hand outcomes
at "50/50."
Not very good, if you ask me, but I like the innovative nature
of what they're trying to do.
Any last thoughts
before we let in the wolves?
There's not much more I can add except that gaming folks need to realize that people have been coming together around games of chance for centuries and that we provide an entertainment experience that enriches people's lives (thanks to my associate Steve Browne for pounding that into me). As such, I think we often get too defensive about our industry and we should realize that we really do create a neat experience. I realize that dealers often feel that they are a small cog in an impersonal big wheel but they need to realize the important responsibility and the power that they have at their tables. They can be dice pushers or card pumpers, or they can truly decide to be memory makers for our casino guests.
Let the questions begin!
Aye, aye captain
(What balls he has)
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Ryan
- dealer - Las Vegas
How do bikini dealers factor in your best/worst promotions list. The tables at the Rio seem to be full. The ladies can't deal but who the hell cares?
They certainly merit consideration, in fact anything that addresses our stagnant table games business is worth a look. Unfortunately, I have seen some lousy bikini pits where the dealers look like they were chosen by Stevie Wonder, and when they add some hunks for the lady blackjack players, then I think it will be less sexist and more worthy.
ZZYZX
- Supervisor - Las Vegas, NV
Dennis
Conrad, your detailed bio didn't say what you graduated from Stanford in but, since you didn't
correct Scott's opening question, I'm guessing that you did graduate in something. Based on your personal
casino experience, what would you say was the best attribute to carry into a budding casino marketing
career?
A college education? A customer-oriented
knowledge of table games? Or, as I suspect was your own trump card, an ability and penchant for smacking a
little ball about a field with a stick? Won't you come clean and admit that a person (male at least) who has
no desire to ever participate in the loosely-termed "sport" of golf, would indeed have to be a raving
looney to think that he had an ice titleist's chance in Shadow Creek of ever getting on in your casino
area?
Yes I did graduate with a BA degree in Political Science. Certainly being a proficient golfer has helped me in my casino career, but it would be too simple an answer to say that there is this little closed circle of executive casino golfers out there who make all of the decisions on who gets ahead based on whether they golf with the boss or not. The real skill is the ability to build relationships with the right executives, whether that is on the golf course, in the EDR, at the health club or at the bar after work (a much better place than the golf course). The key factors in breaking into a casino marketing career, in my opinion, in order are:
1. Common sense
2. A customer focus.
3. An ability to build effective relationships with employees, customers, EVERYBODY!
4. A college degree in anything (this has become more important in the last few years as more casino companies are trying to professionalize their management staff).
5. Some background on the principles of effective marketing, and not just traditional advertising crap.
6 A meaningful mentor.
7. A willingness to do whatever it takes and work your ass off.
8. Taking any marketing position that becomes available, no matter how seemingly trivial. There is a lot of learning in the players club rep position.
A.H., PB, Steubenville
I believe that it is 100% incorrect to base customer
service improvements and/or marketing promotions solely on what might be perceived by the customer (and
hopefully, the bottom line) as a benefit. A "benefit" that is destined, in reality, to become a dealer frown
is no benefit to anyone. I notice that you don't generally take the ordinary dealer's point of view
into account when you conjure up your ideas, but don't you honestly think that those wonderful,
really-put-a-fine-edge-on-the-technical-boredom-of-it-all innovations, such as
matchplay coupons, and the
frowning opportunities that they present for the otherwise pleasant dealer, are sometimes rushed onto
the floor without having been fully examined? In an industry that is fond of reiterating that the
employees (and the service they provide) make or break a casino, shouldn't the marketing department have more
to do with "marketing" those assets rather than the physical or psychological product? Shouldn't casino
marketing's cardinal rule be: "First do no harm...from the staff's point of view"?
I agree with you on the typical disconnect between operations and marketing. Effective strategic marketing plans have three strong pillars:
CUSTOMERS, EMPLOYEES and COMMUNITIES. Good marketing is an integration - the best casino promotions in the world would never work if people came in and clueless or disinterested employees just ran them off. I believe strongly that employees throughout a casino property should not only be consulted in the design and implementation of casino promotions, but also that they should be brought into the loop on the "why's" and the results of the promotions and how important their efforts are in making them successful. But of course I also believe that this would involve changing the job description for most casino front line positions to include more sales and relationship building, and yes more pay when this is executed in a measurable way.
Kenny
- TGS - Atlantic City
I
can envision the day when casinos are moved by the threat of litigation to
change the way we market to customers. Do you feel that the class action
law suits against tobacco companies should be a wake up call to the
casino industry in our marketing efforts in our current state or are we
going to wait until its too late, like the tobacco industry did?
Yes, I think you are right. In one of the sessions at G2E last year, one of the speakers mentioned that there are currently something like eight world wide litigations involving casinos, mostly compulsive gambling cases. Casinos Austria was also dealt the first legal setback in the casino industry recently, although I'm sure that will be long and drawn out on appeal. I think the industry has gotten its head out of the sand on these issues, but still has a long way to go, not only on problem gambling issues but also on second hand smoke issues and several other casino specific issues. It is funny what a few good lawsuits can make happen.
D
M - TGS - Las Vegas, NV
Where I work it seems that every other year or so the marketing department somehow convince the "powers that be" that changes must be made in casino operations. It seems that we must follow suit like little sheep, have tons of meetings, change shit around and ALWAYS end up back at square one exactly where we started. Why can't marketing just do marketing, get folks in the door and leave operations people alone?
My response is similar to the one above. Again, I don't think the answer is to leave the individual casino departments more departmentalized, but to integrate them around a common vision of providing a great, seamless experience for the guests. That takes more interaction between departments, not less. For instance, I believe that a great marketing program could involve having casino guests spending less time in cage lines. It is something that really matters to casino guests (trust me, we've talked to thousands of them), it has a great marketing result (guests spend less time in line and more time in action), and it is probably not too hard to execute. But in the current casino environment, if you took your "CAGE LINE MARKETING PROGRAM" to the CFO, you'd probably get laughed at and thrown out on your ear.
Debra
- Dealer - Las Vegas
In
direct relationship to table games marketing how does the following
come into play in a small 'locals' type of casino? We
are expanding into these areas and although it bring more customers into the
door will it make that much of a difference in the pits?
A
bingo room
A
movie theater complex
Separate
poker room (away from the main pit)
A
night club
The
argument here is with this expansion they will increase the amount of
table games and there wont be much difference in dealer income.
Anything that creates more traffic near or at a casino's front door has the capability of increasing table game business, but the question is "how much, and how likely are they to develop into pit players?" From my experience with numerous casinos (not to be taken as formal consulting advice), a bingo room and a movie theater will do very little for the tables. A poker room will be a little better but not much, as most poker players are dedicated poker players. Strangely, a night club might have some potential with a younger crowd, but they have to be welcomed, instructed and made to feel that table games is "cool." Much like the Hard Rock has been able to accomplish. So you are probably right, table game business will go up slightly and dealer tokes will either be only marginally better or go down.
Anne
- Dual-Rate - Las Vegas
There
are obvious differences of opinion. Casino operations call it gambling,
Marketing calls it gaming. Casino operations wants dealers with technical skill, marketing wants "dealers as the entertainer" - And we reject that idea. We don't want to be
entertainers. The floor supervisors and pit managers don't want entertainers
dealing and REAL GAMBLERS don't want to be entertained! They only want to WIN
MONEY!! What the hell is so wrong with simply being nice and greet
the customer, be cordial and professional?
You are right that real gamblers don't want to be entertained, but more and more social gamblers and newbies do. I don't see why you can't provide both experiences.
Bill,
Dealer - Biloxi
Can
a craps tournament jump start a very slow dice pit? We have poker
tournaments and BJ tournaments but management (and the dice dealers) don't
think a craps tournament would offer the same results. Your opinion?
Crap tournaments are tough nuts to crack, they attract an experienced and savvy craps tournament element that tend to run off most of the regular craps players who even try a tournament. The problem is that craps tournaments are only attractive to a very small percentage to craps players. Consider trying something that is more appealing to a wider audience. Perhaps that is a "live tournament shootout concept" where craps players play with their own money like they usually play and there is no advantage to a skilled player. I like the Craps for Cash concept that they use at Gold Strike in Tunica and in Jean, Nevada. There is a large bonus if a crapshooter makes all the numbered points in a particular craps hand. Think of things that would be attractive for the average player.
Fred
- Poker Dealer - California
Do
the cutting edge marketing tactics of say the Hard rock Casino in Vegas
really work in terms of table game hold percentage? The controversial
"Buck all night" promo targeting NFR rodeo fans with a picture
of a woman's panties at her ankles next to a pair of cowboy boots or the
ads with the topless women holding a die in front of each nipple. Does
this get gamblers in the door and do they play craps?
Or
is it simply shock value marketing?
I disagree that this is "cutting edge" marketing, it is just the blatant selling of sex and in fact the Hard Rock was fined for their advertising by the Nevada Gaming Commission. I doubt if it brings gamblers in the door but it might attract a few horny guys.
BH;
TGS Norwich Conn
I'm
at a loss here. Why would a casino hire an outside table games marketing
expert such as yourself when they have a marketing staff of their own? Doesn't
this cause animosity when trying to work with these people?
Good question. I guess the self serving answer is that we are really good and can offer something that their marketing staff cannot. The real answer probably is though, that some marketing executives aren't real savvy or experienced and we offer a perspective or a skill that they don't have. It can cause some animosity with our client marketing staffs, but the smart ones realize that we are there to help them if they let us (besides, it is the GM who typically hires us, so they tend to act thrilled that we are there).
Greg:
TGS Lake Tahoe
Clearly
the ultimate table games marketing tool is television. Look what the World
Poker Tour has done for the game and now Max Rubin has the World Series of
Blackjack on cable television. Why not craps? Why not YOU?
The ultimate table games marketing tool, in my opinion, is a staff of highly motivated, knowledgeable, super friendly casino dealers and staff. I agree that if done right, a world series of blackjack on cable tv could stimulate some interest in blackjack. I think craps is probably to complex to simplify on tv for the layman and that viewers would probably get frustrated and blow it off.
SW
- Dealer- Norwich Conn
Doesn't
being from Reno where the casino industry has hit hard times impede your
efforts in any way?
Reno has certainly been pounded by Indian gaming in its feeder markets, but there are probably a dozen casinos that are doing quite well, those that have any significant locals business. You would think that the others who are being hammered would be beating down our doors (and some slowly have started to), but most of them are tied to old thinking and probably prefer to go down with the ship than bring in someone with new ideas.
As far as our company being associated with Reno, it is probably a wash. It helps us (especially with tribal casinos) "not being Vegas," but may hurt us a little in Vegas, although that is short sighted on their part.
Fred
- Dealer - San Diego, Ca
I
have an "out of the box" idea for your company Mr.Conrad. I was
reading about the owner of this site organizing a poker tournament for the
Vegas dealers and it gave me an idea. We all know that the best marketing
efforts will not work unless the staff has a positive attitude. Employee
moral is or should be a key factor.
What
I suggest is wherever you get your next contract, have management arrange
a series of tournaments for the dealers and floor staff. A BJ tournament,
Pia Gow, roulette, craps, poker, Let it Ride, 3 card. All the games on
the floor. (Even a slot tournament)
Make
these tournaments available on the slowest periods for all table games
employees and keep this program alive year round maybe once a month. I
will wager that what ever awards are given out and all the expense and
hassle that comes with it will be a good investment with measurable
results. What do you think?
I agree that employee tournaments are a great idea and I used them successfully at several casinos. They work best when the head honchos actually work the tournament. At Harrah's Las Vegas, our senior execs dressed up in the uniforms of all the employees normally associated with the tournament (dealers, cocktail servers, porters, pit supervisors, etc.). Alcohol also helps the concept, for some strange reason (but be careful here - I could tell you some stories!). I would be careful about having too many events across too many strange games. I would think that one employee blackjack tournament and one employee slot tournament would be plenty to attract the widest audience of employees, and not get stale. Also, rather than making it free, I suggest that all employees pay a small entry fee and then the casino matches the prize money. When everyone has a small investment, you get a more committed group of participants. Great idea, hope your casino can make it happen. By the way, we will be at Barona from April 25-27 and if that is your casino, you may find me bellying up to your table. I'll be the asshole playing the "press till you lose" system.
Cynthia, BJ spc., Down Under
Mr Conrad, you like to use the collective term, "guests" and to hazard guesses as to what that group
wants. Why would your guesses be more likely to be correct than those of the average dedicated floor
employee having, say, 10+ years experience? Why do you think you know more about casino "guests" (for the US
alone, that's millions of INDIVIDUALS per year) and their wants, than the people who have to manage them
daily without the aid of a comp ticket book? Surely, as stated before, employee satisfaction is the key to
providing broad guest satisfaction - not guessing what "guests" want.
I don't mind you challenging my credentials. It happens all the time, probably because there are too many consultants that have no real gaming experience in the trenches. But I can tell you that I worked in casinos for 17 years, 8 of which were as a dealer. As part of our marketing work we do focus groups with casino customers, casino frontline employees and casino executives - we have literally talked to thousands of these folks around the world. And I am also an avid customer of the casinos, especially like to play craps and blackjack, so that probably gives me several hundred more casino employee interactions every year. So no, I don't deal with millions of individuals, but I would suggest that not only do I have a pretty good handle on what guests want, but I am very uniquely qualified to offer those opinions. And I can sum it up for you simply: over and over, guests say "let me win," "don't make me wait," and "be nice and appreciate me."
Rocker
TGS Las Vegas
You
wrote: "The ultimate table games marketing tool, in my opinion, is a staff of highly motivated, knowledgeable, super friendly casino dealers and
staff"
When
individuals leave a dealing school to enter the work force they are all "super friendly",
afterwards they become "knowledgeable" in their environment.
It is only after attaining this knowledge they lose motivation, and we all
know why.
In
your professional opinion sir, perhaps you can give a few examples of how
to get the dealers and floor supervisors "highly motivated"
[Again]- In my 20 years in this business I have yet to see anyone
accomplish this task. Only the threat of discipline and or termination has
always been the deciding factor on delivering the smiling mask you see
upon the faces of the pit staff.
This is not a simple issue but involves a host of complex strategies and tactics. The hiring process must really be nailed down to really stress hiring for attitude. The general manager (or some very senior executive) needs to really lead the charge and live the behavior that he or she seeks. There needs to be continuous, extensive training, especially training in how to effectively interact with all sorts of customers. There needs to be standards and protocols and they need to be followed. The bad apples need to be weeded out very aggressively and managers need to learn to spend 90% of their time with their best employees (coaching, encouraging, praising, etc.) instead of spending 90% of their time with the worst employees. There needs to be a meaningful recognition program in place that is driven by the people who are being recognized. And most importantly, a way must be found to allow all employees to have a significant say in how they best do their jobs. This is a very extensive process but to create meaningful work, it has to happen.
BB;
Occupation, hometown not disclosed
I took the time to read your articles that accompany
the interview. I must say that if I wasn't such a trusting soul, I would definitely have doubts about
your claim to having been a dealer, and a craps dealer at that, for 10 years prior to entering the casino
marketing field. You may be able to sell your "over the rainbow" dreams of the ideal table games area to
Harrah's one-week trained executives, but do you
really expect the people who work in those areas - in real life - to buy them?
Not those with attitudes like the one you express in
your question.
I.I., TGS, Upper Heights
Craps is what
it is BECAUSE of the environment that is generates and has always generated. It's the rough-houser from the
streets that married into Monte Carlo society but didn't forget its roots. Craps players may be
collectively and justly termed whatever the opposite of "the salt of the earth" is and a crap game is a
battlefield by client demand. Craps dealers realize this but perversely come to see that things couldn't
change and, even if they could, that they wouldn't want them to. Anyone who has dealt craps for a while
should know that. Did you forget?
Do you really believe that
a craps table can be made into a permanently friendly environment for anyone - players, novices or
employees? Do you really think that, "with the right employees" craps can become a Disneyland experience
for all and sundry and still be craps?
I actually agree with you on what the environment is currently at the crap table - a little rough around the edges, a little bit "us vs. them," even a little snarly. I LOVE that environment as you obviously do too. My point is however that we need to change it if we are going to attract new business and not watch the game die because little old ladies, twenty-somethings and other newbies out there don't want to deal with that "classic craps atmosphere" that is, frankly, quite intimidating. While it might not be Disneyland, it certainly would be something that rivals it for fun and customer
focus. No, this isn't too surprising.
Sara
- Occupation, hometown not disclosed
Scott,
this isn't so much a question for your interview with Dennis Conrad it is
more of an observation. Your message board got all kinds BS slamming this
guy or I should say who this guy represents. (Marketing)
I
feel by reading all this stuff that the problem lies more with casino
operations unwillingness to adapt to the rapid changes that are going on
in the industry more so than the other way around. What this whole topic
brings to light is that there will always be problems no matter what good
ideas marketing brings to the table - if table game managers continue to
sweat the money and treat their staff like shit. I feel for this guy and
his peers. He has a tough job with many unnecessary roadblocks.
Thanks for the kind words. My job really isn't all that tough (remember, I get to LEAVE an organization eventually or can tell them to go to hell whenever I want). But the process of producing really effective marketing does go through all of the operational departments and does have to deal with the roadblocks that you so aptly described. Effective gaming organizations of the future will find a way to blend marketing and operations, because it is all one integrated process. Every single employee has an important role to play in the marketing process. A marketing director can come up with a great promotion that brings people in, but if a dealer runs them off or acts clueless, nothing has been gained. Conversely, a marketing director can put out some stupid table game coupons that slow up the game and tick off the dealers, but if the dealers handle those coupons and those customers with knowledge, patience and caring, then that was a pretty effective damn promotion.
Scott
Cameron - CasinoDealers.Net
Thank you for your time Dennis. Any closing thoughts?
Yes, I found this to be a worthwhile exercise. I know you were hoping for a "peek behind the curtain" on what it is really like to work in casino marketing, but obviously your readers had a lot of venting to do. That's okay. I see a lot of this polarization and us vs. them attitude in the work that we do. It is one of the significant barriers in creating effective marketing - convincing the operators and the frontline employees that they are extremely important, no make that CRITICAL to the process.
I can tell that dealers haven't changed an awful lot since I was in the trenches. They are still very opinionated and not afraid to speak their minds. A good operator would be tapping into that
energy. In my opinion, you should always allow the readers to ask questions. The interviews will go wherever they go, but at least readers will feel a chance to be part of the process. I did feel that several of the questions were good, even some of the negative ones. When I do focus groups with employees (including many dealers), we often have to deal with some venting before we can get to a productive, rational discussion. Most of your readers need to vent and that is not a bad thing, but it would be good to get them past that to a more constructive phase.
My experience also confirms that there remains a lot of education to be done regarding marketing. Some of the questioners felt like marketing was advertising, or marketing was something done in some cave by marketing people. I'll say it again, the definition of marketing (right out of the dictionary) is "ALL business activity involved in the moving of goods or services from the producer to the consumer, including advertising, selling, packaging, ETC." Look at the first word and the last word in the definition. Every single casino employee, front of the house, back of the house, you name it, has a hand in the marketing process. Whether they want to or not. Whether they can get past their anger toward the marketing department or not. Whether they are a dealer, or a cocktail server, or a porter or a dishwasher, or a general manager. Those of your readers who embrace this thought and bring value to the guest experience and the marketing process, are poised for success.
Thanks again, I believe you are providing a valuable service to the gaming industry. If you were able to broaden your reach to include all casino employees, I think you could be effective in building some important bridges between departments. But initially, I think that the reaction you would get in frank discussions among all casino departments, would make my questions look like softballs.
Good luck in your work.
Dennis Conrad |
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Interview
complete
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My
Gift to Table Game Operators
A
Casino Full of Raving Fans
THOU
SHALT STEAL
The
Ultimate Party Pit
Casino
Marketing
By Dennis Conrad
From
The Heart Of The Gulf Coast
To The Atlantic City Shore,
To The Strip In Las Vegas
And Tribal Casinos Galore.
To
Gambling Salons In Europe
And African Casinos In
View,
To Gambling Halls In Australia,
South America, Asia, Canada Too.
Everyone
Is Gambling,
At Least That's How It Seems,
Seeking The American...
No, The World Wide Dream.
All
They Want Is A Fun Time
With A Decent Chance To Win.
They Want Cheerful Employees,
Comfy Chairs, Clean Air, Maybe Some Gin.
I'm
Afraid What We've Done Though
Is Listen To Ourselves.
Cash Back, Promotions,
Cheap Stuff From Our Shelves.
Changing
Floor Layouts,
With Cash Drawings Daily,
Free Rooms, Bounce Backs, Coin Offers
No Wonder We're Wailing.
Just
Ask Your Customers
They'll Tell You Their Wishes.
They Are Guests With Simple Needs
Not Some School Of Fishes.
So
When The Heat Really Is On
And The G.M.'S At The Door
Shout,
"We're
Listening To Our Guests.
We Haven't Tried That Before!"
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